First Presidential Debate 2020 - Donald Trump v. Joe Biden

First Presidential Debate 2020 - Donald Trump v. Joe Biden

Chris Wallace 00:00:34
Good evening from the Health Education Campus of Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic. I'm Chris Wallace of Fox News, and I welcome you to the first of the 2020 presidential debates between President Donald J. Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden. This debate is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The Commission has designed the format, six roughly 15 minute segments with two minute answers from each candidate to the first question, then open discussion for the rest of each segment. Both campaigns have agreed to these rules. For the record, I decided the topics and the questions in each topic. I can assure you, none of the questions has been shared with the Commission or the two candidates. This debate is being conducted under health and safety protocols designed by the Cleveland Clinic, which is serving as the Health Security Adviser to the Commission for all four debates. As a precaution, both campaigns have agreed the candidates will not shake hands at the beginning of tonight's debate. The audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent. No cheers, no boos or other interruptions so we and more importantly you can focus on what the candidates have to say. No noise, except right now as we welcome the Republican nominee, President Trump, and the Democratic nominee, Vice President Biden.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:02:03
How are you doing, man?

President Donald Trump 00:02:03
How are you doing?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:02:03
I'm well.

Chris Wallace 00:02:26
Gentlemen, a lot of people have been waiting for this night, so let's get going. Our first subject is the Supreme Court. President Trump, you nominated Amy Coney Barrett over the weekend to succeed the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the court. You say the Constitution is clear about your obligation and the Senate's to consider a nominee to the court. Vice President Biden, you say that this is an effort by the president and Republicans to jam through on an appointment and what you call an abuse of power. My first question to both of you tonight, why are you right in the argument you make and your opponent wrong? And, where do you think a Justice Barrett would take the court? President Trump, in that first segment, you go first, two minutes.

President Donald Trump 00:03:16
Thank you very much, Chris. I will tell you very simply, we won the election. Elections have consequences. We have the Senate, we have the White House, and we have a phenomenal nominee respected by all, top top academic, good in every way. In fact, some of her biggest endorsers are very liberal people from Notre Dame and other places. So I think she's going to be fantastic. We have plenty of time, even if we did it after the election itself. I have a lot of time after the election, as you know. So I think that she will be outstanding. She's going to be as good as anybody that has served on that court, we really feel that we have. A professor at Notre Dame, highly respected by all, said she's the single greatest student he's ever had. He's been a professor for a long time at a great school. We won the election and therefore, we have the right to choose her, and very few people knowingly would say otherwise. By the way, the Democrats, they wouldn't even think about not doing it. If they had, the only difference is to try and do it faster. There's no way they would give it up. They had Merrick Garland, but the problem is they didn't have the election, so they were stopped, and probably that would happen in reverse also. Definitely would happen in reverse. So we won the election and we have the right to do it, Chris.

Chris Wallace 00:04:37
President Trump, thank you. Same question to you, Vice President Biden, you have two minutes.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:04:43
Well, first of all, thank you for doing this and looking forward to this, Mr. President.

President Donald Trump 00:04:48
Thank you, Joe.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:04:49
The American people have a right to have a say in who the Supreme Court nominee is. And that say occurs when they vote for a United States senators and when they vote for the president of United States. They're not going to get that chance now because we're in the middle of an election already, election has already started. Tens of thousands of people have already voted, and so the thing that should happen is we should wait. We should wait and see what the outcome of this election is, because that's the only way the American people get to express their view is by who they elect as president and who they elect as vice president. Now, what's at stake here is the president's made it clear he wants to get rid of the Affordable Care Act. He's been running on that. He ran on that and he's been governing on that. He's in the Supreme Court right now trying to get rid of the Affordable Care Act, which will strip 20 million people from having health insurance now, if it goes into court and the Justice and I have nothing, I'm not opposed to the Justice. She seems like a very fine person, but she's written before she went on the bench, which is her right, that she thinks that the Affordable Care Act is not constitutional. The other thing is on the court and if it's struck down, what happens? Women's rights are fundamentally changed. Once again, a woman could be held, pay more money because she has a pre-existing condition of pregnancy. They're able to charge a woman more for the same exact procedure a man do. That ended when we, in fact, passed the Affordable Care Act.

[No Speaker] 00:06:27
There's 100 million people who have pre-existing conditions and they'll be taken away as well, those pre-existing conditions. Insurance companies are going to love this. So it's just not appropriate to do this before this election. If he wins the election and the Senate is a Republican, then he goes forward, if not, we should wait until February.

President Donald Trump 00:06:49
There aren't 100 million people with pre-existing conditions. As far as a say is concerned, the people already had their say. Okay, Justice Ginsburg said very powerfully, very strongly, at some point, 10 years ago or so, she said a President and the Senate is elected for a period of time, but a president is elected for four years. We're not elected for three years. I'm not elected for three years. So we have the Senate. We have a president-

Vice President Joe Biden 00:07:15
He's elected to the next election.

President Donald Trump 00:07:16
During that period of time, we have an opening. I'm not elected for three years. I'm elected for four years. Joe, the 100 million people is totally wrong. I don't know where you got that number. The bigger problem that you have is that you're going to extinguish 180 million people with their private healthcare, that they're very happy with.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:07:38
That's simply not true.

President Donald Trump 00:07:39
Well, you're certainly going to socialist. You are going to socialist medicine.

Chris Wallace 00:07:43
Gentlemen, we're now into open discussion.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:07:45
Open discussion.

Chris Wallace 00:07:46
Open discussion. Yes, I agree. Go ahead Vice President Biden.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:07:48
Number one, he knows that what I proposed, what I proposed is that we expand Obamacare and we increase it. We do not wipe any. One of the big debates we had with 23 of my colleagues trying to win the nomination that I won, we're saying that Biden wanted to allow people to have private insurance still. They can. They do. They will, under my proposal.

President Donald Trump 00:08:13
That's not what you said and it's not what your party is saying.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:08:15
That is simply a lie.

President Donald Trump 00:08:15
Your party doesn't say it, your party wants to go socialist medicine and socialist healthcare.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:08:18
Our party is me. Right now, I am the Democratic Party.

President Donald Trump 00:08:22
They're going to dominate you, Joe. You know that.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:08:24
I am the Democratic Party right now.

President Donald Trump 00:08:26
Not according to Harris.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:08:26
The platform of the Democratic Party is what I, in fact, approved of. Now, here's the deal. The deal is that it's going to wipe out pre-existing conditions. By the way, the 200,000 people that have died on his watch, how many of those have survived? Well, there's seven million people that's contracted COVID. What does it mean for them going forward if you strike down the Affordable Care Act?

President Donald Trump 00:08:54
Joe, you've had 308,000 military people dying because you couldn't provide them proper healthcare in the military. So don't tell me about this.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:09:01
I'm happy to talk about this.

President Donald Trump 00:09:02
If you were here...

Vice President Joe Biden 00:09:03
Look here's the deal.

President Donald Trump 00:09:03 wouldn't be 200, it would be two million people because you were very late on the draw. You didn't want me to ban China, which was heavily infected. You didn't want me to ban Europe.

Chris Wallace 00:09:13
All right, gentlemen.

President Donald Trump 00:09:13
Which was heavily infected.

Chris Wallace 00:09:15
Mr. President.

President Donald Trump 00:09:15
You would have been much later, Joe, much later.

Chris Wallace 00:09:18
Mr. President.

President Donald Trump 00:09:18
You're talking about two million people.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:09:20
You're not going to be able to shut him up.

Chris Wallace 00:09:20
Mr. President, as the moderator, we are going to talk about COVID on the next segment. But go ahead.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:09:26
Let me finish. The point is that the President also is opposed to Roe v. Wade. That's on the ballot as well, and the court, in the court. So that's also at stake right now. So the election is all-

President Donald Trump 00:09:39
You don't know it's on the ballot. Why is it on the ballot? It's not on the ballot.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:09:45
It's on the ballot in the court.

President Donald Trump 00:09:46
I don't think so. There's nothing happening there.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:09:49
Donald, would you just be quiet for a minute.

President Donald Trump 00:09:50
You don't know her view on Roe v. Wade. You don't don't know her view.

Chris Wallace 00:09:55
Well, all right. Let's talk. We've got a lot to unpack here, gentlemen. We've got a lot of time. So on healthcare and then we'll come back to Roe v. Wade.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:10:05
All right.

Chris Wallace 00:10:06
Mr. President, the Supreme Court will hear a case a week after the election in which the Trump administration, along with 18 state attorneys general, are seeking to overturn...

President Donald Trump 00:10:18
That's right.

Chris Wallace 00:10:18
...Obamacare, to end Obamacare. You have spent the last week-

President Donald Trump 00:10:21
Because they want to give good healthcare.

Chris Wallace 00:10:23
If I may ask my question, sir.

President Donald Trump 00:10:25
Good healthcare.

Chris Wallace 00:10:26
Over the last four years, you have promised to repeal and replace Obamacare, but you have never in these four years, come up with a plan, a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare.

President Donald Trump 00:10:39
Yes, I have. Of course I have. I got rid of the individual mandate.

Chris Wallace 00:10:42
When I finish, I'm going to give you an opportunity-

President Donald Trump 00:10:43
Excuse me. I got rid of the individual mandate, which was a big chunk of Obamacare.

Chris Wallace 00:10:46
That is not a comprehensive plan.

President Donald Trump 00:10:46
That is absolutely a big thing. That was the worst part of Obamacare.

Chris Wallace 00:10:49
Sir, you are debating him not me. If I may ask my question.

President Donald Trump 00:10:53
Well, I'll ask Joe. The individual mandate was the most unpopular aspect of Obamacare.

Chris Wallace 00:10:58
Mr. President.

President Donald Trump 00:10:58
I got rid of it and we will protect people with pre-existing conditions.

Chris Wallace 00:10:59
Mr. President, I'm the moderator of this debate and I would like you to let me ask my question and then you can answer.

President Donald Trump 00:11:06
Go ahead.

Chris Wallace 00:11:07
You in the course of these four years, have never come up with a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare. And just this last Thursday, you signed a largely symbolic executive order to protect people with pre-existing conditions five days before this debate. So my question, sir, is, what is the Trump healthcare plan?

President Donald Trump. 00:11:30
Well, first of all, I guess I'm debating you, not him, but that's okay. I'm not surprised. Let me just tell you something that, there's nothing symbolic. I'm cutting drug prices. I'm going with Favored Nations, which no president has the courage to do because you're going against big pharma. Drug prices will be coming down 80 or 90 percent. You could have done it during your 47 year period in government, but you didn't do it. Nobody's done it. So we're cutting healthcare.

Chris Wallace 00:11:54
What about pre-existing conditions?

President Donald Trump 00:11:54
All of the things that we've done in some.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:11:56
He has not cut healthcare.

President Donald Trump 00:11:57
I'll give you an example, insulin, it was destroying families, destroying people, the cost. I'm getting it for so cheap, it's like water. You want to know the truth, so cheap. Take a look at all of the drugs that what we're doing, prescription drug prices, we're going to allow our governors now to go to other countries to buy drugs because they pay, just a tiny fraction of what we do.

Chris Wallace 00:12:17
If I say this is open discussion.

President Donald Trump 00:12:18
No, this is a big stuff.

Chris Wallace 00:12:18
Sir, you'll be happy. I'm about to pick up on one of your points to ask the vice president, which, as he points out, that you would like to add a public option to Obamacare.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:12:31

Chris Wallace 00:12:31
The argument that he makes and other Republicans make is that that is going to end private insurance.

President Donald Trump 00:12:38
It is not.

Chris Wallace 00:12:38
Well, if I start asking the question and it will end.

President Donald Trump 00:12:42
Is not what your party says, by the way.

Chris Wallace 00:12:43
It will end private insurance and create a government takeover with healthcare.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:12:47
It does not. It's only for those people who are so poor they qualify for Medicaid, they can get that free in most states except governors who want to deny people who are poor Medicaid. Anyone who qualifies for Medicare, excuse me, Medicaid would automatically be enrolled in the public option. The vast majority of the American people would still not be in that option. Number one. Number two.

President Donald Trump 00:13:12
Joe, you agree with Bernie Sanders who's far left on the manifesto, we call it, that, that gives you socialized medicine.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:13:19
Look. Hey.

President Donald Trump 00:13:20
Are you saying you didn't agree?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:13:20
I'm not going to listen to him. The fact of the matter is I beat Bernie Sanders.

President Donald Trump 00:13:24
Not by much.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:13:25
I beat him by a whole hell of a lot.

President Donald Trump 00:13:26
Not by much.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:13:27
I'm here standing facing you old buddy.

President Donald Trump 00:13:28
If Pocahontas would have left two days earlier, you would have lost every primary.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:13:31
All he knows how to do is-

President Donald Trump 00:13:32
On super Tuesday, you got very lucky.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:13:34
Look, here's the deal. I got very lucky, I'm going to get get very lucky tonight as well.

President Donald Trump 00:13:37
With what?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:13:38
Tonight, I'm going to make sure.

President Donald Trump 00:13:39
With what?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:13:40
Because here's a deal. The fact is that everything he's saying so far is simply a lie. I'm not here to call out his lies. Everybody knows he's a liar.

President Donald Trump 00:13:48
But you agree. Joe, you are the liar. You graduated last in your class not first in your class.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:13:49
God, I want to make sure-

Chris Wallace 00:13:56
Mr. President, can you let him finish, sir?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:13:58
No, he doesn't know how to do that.

President Donald Trump 00:14:00
You'd be surprised. Go ahead, Joe.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:14:02
You picked the wrong guy, the wrong night at the wrong time.

President Donald Trump 00:14:05
Listen, you agreed with Bernie Sanders on the manifesto.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:14:09
There is no manifesto. Number one.

Chris Wallace 00:14:11
Please, let him speak, Mr. President.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:14:12
Number two.

President Donald Trump 00:14:12
He just lost the left.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:14:14
Number two.

President Donald Trump 00:14:15
You just lost the left. You agreed with Bernie Sanders on a plan-

Vice President Joe Biden 00:14:22
Folks, do you have any idea what this Trump is doing? You have to do?

President Donald Trump 00:14:26
That you absolutely agreed to and under that plan[ Crosstalk: 00:15:11], they call it socialized medicine.

Chris Wallace 00:14:28
Mr. President.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:14:28
I'll tell you what, he is not for any help for people needing healthcare.

President Donald Trump 00:14:34
Who is? Bernie?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:14:34
Because he, in fact, already has cost 10 million people their healthcare that they had from their employers because of his recession, number one. Number two, there are 20 million people getting healthcare through Obamacare now that he wants to take it away. He won't ever look in the eye and say that's what he wants to do, take it away.

President Donald Trump 00:14:56
No, I want to give them better healthcare at a much lower price, because Obamacare is no good.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:14:59
Number three, by the way he doesn't know how to do that.

President Donald Trump 00:15:01
I've already fixed it.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:15:02
He has never offered a plan.

President Donald Trump 00:15:03
I've already fixed it to an extent.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:15:04
He has never done a single thing.

President Donald Trump 00:15:06
Obamacare, as you might know, but probably don't. Obamacare is no good, Joe and it's still expensive.

Chris Wallace 00:15:08
Gentlemen, you realize if you're both speaking at the same time. Let the President. Go ahead, sir.

President Donald Trump 00:15:11
Obamacare is no good. We made it better and I had a choice to make very early on. We took away the individual mandate. We guarantee pre-existing conditions, but took away the individual mandate.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:15:23
Not true.

President Donald Trump 00:15:24
Listen, this is the way it is, and that destroyed. They shouldn't even call it Obamacare, that I had a choice to make. Do I let my people run it really well or badly? If I run it badly, they'll probably blame him, but they'll blame me, but more importantly, I want to help people. Okay? I said, "You've got to run it so well," and I just had a meeting with them. They said the problem is, no matter how well you run Obamacare, it's a disaster. It's too expensive. Premiums are too high, that it doesn't work.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:15:52
That is not what these people said.

President Donald Trump 00:15:53
We do want to get rid of it. Chris, we want to get rid of that and give something that's cheaper and better.

Chris Wallace 00:15:56
I understand that, sir, but I have to give you roughly equal time. Please let the vice president talk.

President Donald Trump 00:16:01
Go ahead.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:16:02
He has no plan for healthcare.

President Donald Trump 00:16:04
Of course we do.

Chris Wallace 00:16:04

Vice President Joe Biden 00:16:07
He sends out wishful thinking. He has executive orders that have no power. He hasn't lowered drug costs for anybody. He's been promising a healthcare plan since he got elected. He has none. Like almost everything else he talks about. He does not have a plan. The fact is, this man doesn't know what he's talking about.

Chris Wallace 00:16:28
All right. I have one final question for you.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:16:30

Chris Wallace 00:16:30
Mr. Vice President, if Senate Republicans, we were talking originally about the Supreme Court here. If Senate Republicans go ahead and confirm Justice Barrett. There has been talk about ending the filibuster or even packing the court, adding to the nine justices there. You call this a distraction by the president but in fact, it wasn't brought up by the president, it was brought up by some of your Democratic colleagues in the Congress. So my question to you is, you have refused in the past to talk about it, are you willing to tell the American people tonight whether or not you will support either ending the filibuster or packing the court.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:17:09
Whatever position I take on that, that will become the issue.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:17:11
The issue is the American people should speak. You should go out and vote. You're in voting now. Vote and let your senators know-

President Donald Trump 00:17:19
Are you going to pack the court?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:17:19
- how strongly you feel.

President Donald Trump 00:17:20
Are you going to pack the court?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:17:21
Vote now. Make sure you, in fact, let people know your Senators.

President Donald Trump 00:17:26
He doesn't want to answer question.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:17:27
I'm not going to answer the question.

President Donald Trump 00:17:28
Why wouldn't you answer that question? You want to put a lot of new Supreme Court Justices. Radical left.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:17:29
Because the question is- Will you shut up, man?

[No Speaker] 00:17:34
Listen, who is on your list, Joe?

Chris Wallace 00:17:37
All right, gentlemen, I think we have ended this-

Vice President Joe Biden 00:17:38
This is so un-presidential.

President Donald Trump 00:17:40
He is going to pack the the court, he is not going to give a list.

Chris Wallace 00:17:42
We have ended the segment. We're going to move on to the second segment.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:17:44
That was really a productive segment, wasn't it? Keep yapping, man.

President Donald Trump 00:17:50
The people understand, Joe.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:17:50
They sure do.

President Donald Trump 00:17:52
47 years, you've done nothing. They understand.

Chris Wallace 00:17:54
All right, the second subject is COVID-19, which is an awfully serious subject. So, let's try to be serious about it. We have had more than seven million cases of coronavirus in the United States and more than 200,000 people have died. Even after we produce a vaccine, experts say that it could be months or even years before we come back to anything approaching normal. My question for both of you is, based on what you have said and done so far and what you have said you would do starting in 2021, why should the American people trust you more than your opponent to deal with this public health crisis going forward? In this case, the question goes to you first, sir. Two minutes uninterrupted.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:18:48
Good luck, 200,000 dead. As you said, over seven million infected in the United States. We, in fact, have four percent of the world's population, 20 percent of the deaths, 40,000 people a day are contracting COVID. In addition to that, about between 750 and 1,000 people, they're dying. When he was presented with that number, he said, "It is what it is." Well, it is what it is because you are who you are. That's why it is. The president has no plan. He hasn't laid out anything. He knew all the way back in February how serious this crisis was. He knew it was a deadly disease. What did he do? He's on tape, is acknowledging he knew it. He said he didn't tell us or give people a warning of it because he didn't want to panic the American people. You don't panic. He panicked. In addition to that, what did he do? He went in and we were insisting that the Chinese, the people we had on the ground in China should be able to go to Wuhan and determine for themselves how dangerous this was. He did not even ask Xi to do that.

President Donald Trump 00:19:57

Vice President Joe Biden 00:19:57
He told us what a great job Xi was doing. He said we owe him a debt of gratitude for being so transparent with us. And what did he do then? He then did nothing. He waited and waited and waited. He still doesn't have a plan.

President Donald Trump 00:20:11

Chris Wallace 00:20:11
Sir, it's his two minutes.

President Donald Trump 00:20:11
It's so wrong, man.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:20:11
I laid out back in March exactly what we should be doing, and I laid out again in July what we should be doing. We should be providing all the protective gear possible. We should be providing the money the House has passed in order to be able to go out and get people the help they need to keep their businesses open, open schools that cost a lot of money. You should get out of your bunker and get out of the sand trap in your golf course and go in the Oval Office and bring together the Democrats, Republicans and fund what needs to be done now to save lives.

President Donald Trump 00:20:44
So if we would have listened to you-

Chris Wallace 00:20:46
Wait, you have two minutes, sir.

President Donald Trump 00:20:48
If we would have listened to you, the country would have been left wide open, millions of people would have died, not 200,000 and one person is too much. It's China's fault. It should have never happened. They stopped it from going in, but it was China's fault. By the way, when you talk about numbers, you don't know how many people died in China. You don't know how many people died in Russia. You don't know how many people died in India. They don't exactly give you a straight count, just so you understand. But if you look at what we've done, I closed it and you said, "He's xenophobic, he's a racist and he's xenophobic because-

Vice President Joe Biden 00:21:18
Is unrelated to you.

President Donald Trump 00:21:18
- you didn't think I should have closed our country. Wait a minute.

Chris Wallace 00:21:20
Sir, it's his two minutes.

President Donald Trump 00:21:21
You didn't think we should have closed our country because you thought it was terrible. You wouldn't have closed it for another two months. By my doing it early, in fact, Dr. Fauci said, "President Trump saved thousands of lives". Many of your Democrat governors said, "President Trump did a phenomenal job". We worked with the governor. Oh, really? Go take a look. The governors said I did a phenomenal job. Most of them said that, in fact, people that would not be necessarily on my side said that, "President Trump did a phenomenal job". We did. We got the gowns. We got the masks. We made the ventilators. You wouldn't have made ventilators, and now we're weeks away from a vaccine. We're doing therapeutics already. Fewer people are dying when they get sick. Far fewer people are dying. We've done a great job. The only thing I haven't done a good job and that's because of the fake news. No matter what you say to them, they give you a bad press on it. It's just fake news. They give you good press, they give me bad press, because that's the way it is, unfortunately.

President Donald Trump. 00:22:20
But let me just say some. I don't care. I've gotten used to it. But I'll tell you, Joe, you could never have done the job that we did. You don't have it in your blood. You could have never done that, Joe.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:22:29
I know how to do the job. I know how to get the job done.

President Donald Trump. 00:22:32
Well, you didn't do very well in Swine Flu, H1N1. You were a disaster. Your own Chief of Staff said you were a disaster.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:22:39
14,000 people died, not 200,000. There was no economical recession.

President Donald Trump. 00:22:42
A far less lethal disease, by the way.

Chris Wallace 00:22:43
Sir, you made a point. Let him answer up.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:22:44
There was no economic recession by the way. There was no one- We didn't shut down the economy. This is his economy, he shut down. The reason it's shut down is because, look, you folks at home, how many of you get up this morning and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died of COVID? How many of you are in a situation where you lost your mom or dad and you couldn't even speak to them? You had a nurse holding a phone up so you can, in fact, say goodbye?

President Donald Trump. 00:23:12
We would have lost far too more people. You would have been months late. You are months behind me, Joe.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:23:15
By the way, his own CDC director says we could lose as many as another 200,000 people between now and the end of the year. He said, "If we just wear a mask, we can save half those numbers, just the mask". By the way, in terms of the whole notion of a vaccine, we're for a vaccine, but I don't trust him at all, nor do you. I know you don't. What we trust is a scientist.

President Donald Trump. 00:23:40
You don't trust Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:23:42
We, by the way-

Chris Wallace 00:23:43
Okay gentlemen, let me move on to questions about the future, because you both have touched on two of the questions I'm going to ask. Focusing on the future first, President Trump, you have repeatedly either contradicted or been at odds with some of your government's own top scientists. The week before our last, the head of the Centers for Disease Control, Dr. Redfield, said it would be summer before the vaccine would become generally available to the public. You said that he was confused and mistaken. Those were your two words.

President Donald Trump. 00:24:16

Chris Wallace 00:24:17
But Dr. Slaoui, the head of your Operation Warp Speed, has said exactly the same thing. Are they both wrong?

President Donald Trump. 00:24:23
Well, I've spoken to the companies and we can have it a lot sooner. It's a very political thing because people like this would rather make it political than save lives.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:24:31

President Donald Trump. 00:24:31
It is a very political thing. I've spoken to Pfizer. I've spoken to all of the people that you have to speak to. We have great Moderna, Johnson & Johnson and others. They can go faster than that by a lot. It's become very political because the left or I don't know if I call them left.

Chris Wallace 00:24:47
So you're suggesting that the ahead of your Operation Warp Speed, Dr. Slauoi?

President Donald Trump. 00:24:50
I disagree with him. No, I disagree with both of them. He didn't say that. He said it could be there, but it could also be much sooner. I had him in my office two days ago.

Chris Wallace 00:24:58
He talked about the summer, sir, before it's generally available just like Dr. Redfield.

President Donald Trump. 00:25:01
Because he said it's a possibility that we'll have the answer before November 1st. It could also be after that.

Chris Wallace 00:25:08
I'm talking about when it's generally available, not when it would be-

President Donald Trump. 00:25:09
Well, we're going to deliver it right away. We have the military all set up logistically. They're all set up. We have our military that delivers soldiers and they can do 200,000 a day. They're going to be delivering the vaccine.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:25:20
This is the same man who told you-

President Donald Trump. 00:25:21
It's all set up.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:25:23
- by Easter, this would be gone away. By the warm weather, it'd be gone miraculously, like a miracle. By the way, maybe you could inject some bleach in your arm and that would take care of it. This is the same man.

President Donald Trump. 00:25:32
This was said sarcastically, you know that.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:25:36
So here's the deal. This man is talking about a vaccine. Every serious company is talking about maybe having the vaccine done by the end of the year, but the distribution of that vaccine will not occur until some time beginning in the middle of next year to get it out. If we get the vaccine and pray God, we will.

Chris Wallace 00:25:57
Mr. Vice President, I want to pick up the-

President Donald Trump. 00:25:59
You'll have the vaccine sooner than that.

Chris Wallace 00:25:59
I want to pick up on this question, though. You say the public can trust the scientists, but they can't trust President Trump. In fact, you said that again tonight. Your running mate, Senator Harris, goes further, saying the public health experts, "will be muzzled, will be suppressed". Given the fact that polls already show that people are concerned about the vaccine and are reluctant to take it, are you and your running mate, Senator Harris, contributing to that fear?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:26:27
No more than the question you just asked him. You pointed out, he puts pressure and disagrees with his own scientists.

Chris Wallace 00:26:34
But you're saying you can't-

Vice President Joe Biden 00:26:34
Everybody knows-

Chris Wallace 00:26:34
Senator Harris is saying you can't trust the scientist.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:26:37
Well, no. You can trust the scientists, she didn't say that. You can trust-

Chris Wallace 00:26:41
She said that public health experts, "will be muzzled, will be suppressed".

President Donald Trump. 00:26:45
She did say that.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:26:45
Well, that's what he's going to try to do, but there's millions of scientists and there's thousands of scientists out there like here at this great hospital that don't work for him. Their job doesn't depend on him. They are the people- And by the way.

President Donald Trump. 00:27:00
We spoke to the scientists that are in charge, they will have the vaccine very soon.

Chris Wallace 00:27:02
Let him finish.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:27:04
Do you believe for a moment what he's telling you in light of all the lies he's told you about the whole issue relating to COVID? He still hasn't even acknowledged that he knew this was happening, knew how dangerous is going to be back in February and he didn't even tell you. He's on record as saying it. He panicked or he just looked at the stock market, one of the two, because guess what? A lot of people died and a lot more are going to die unless he gets a lot smarter, a lot quicker.

Chris Wallace 00:27:35
Mr. President?

President Donald Trump 00:27:37
Did you use the word smart? So you said you went to Delaware State, but you forgot the name of your college. You didn't go to Delaware State, you graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. Don't ever use the word smart with me. Don't ever use that word.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:27:52
Oh, give me break.

President Donald Trump 00:27:53
Because you know what? There's nothing smart about you, Joe, 47 years you've done nothing.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:27:57
Well, let's have this debate-

President Donald Trump 00:27:59
Let me just tell you something, Joe. If you would have had the charge of what I was put through. I had to close the greatest economy in the history of our country. By the way, now it's being built again and it's going up fast.

Chris Wallace 00:28:11
We'll get to the economy in the next segment, sir.

President Donald Trump 00:28:12
Okay. It's going up fast. I look forward to talking about it.

Chris Wallace 00:28:15
When it comes to how the virus has been handled so far, the two of you have taken very different approaches, and this is going to affect how the virus is handled going forward by whichever of us ends up becoming the next president. I want to quickly go through several of those. Reopenings. Vice President Biden, you have been much more reluctant than President Trump about reopening the economy and schools. Why, sir?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:28:40
Because he doesn't have a plan. If I were running, I'd know what the plan is. You've got to provide these businesses the ability to have the money to be able to reopen with the PPE, as well as with the sanitation they need. You have to provide them classic-

President Donald Trump 00:28:54
Tell that to Nancy Pelosi.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:28:56
Will he just shush for a minute.

President Donald Trump 00:28:57
Tell it to Nancy Pelosi and Schumer, by the way, Chuck.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:29:01
Nancy Pelosi and Schumer, they have a plan. He won't even meet with them. The Republicans won't meet in the Senate. He sits in his golf course. Well, I mean, literally think about it.

President Donald Trump 00:29:12
You probably played more than I do, Joe.

Chris Wallace 00:29:15
What about this question of reopenings and the fact-

President Donald Trump 00:29:17
Well, he wants to shut down this country and I want to keep it open and we did a great thing by shutting it down.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:29:24
You just admitted you shut it down.

President Donald Trump 00:29:24
Wait a minute, Joe. Let me shut you down for a second. Joe, just for one second. He wants to shut down the country. We just went through it. We had to because we didn't know anything about the disease. Now, we found that elderly people with heart problems and the diabetes and different problems are very, very vulnerable. We learned a lot. Young children aren't, even younger people aren't. We've learned a lot. But he wants to shut it down. More people will be hurt by continuing. If you look at Pennsylvania, if you look at certain states that have been shut down, they have Democrat governors all, one of the reasons they shut down is because they want to keep it shut down until after the election on November 3rd.

Chris Wallace 00:30:02
All right I want to move on to another-

President Donald Trump 00:30:02
Because its a political thing.

Chris Wallace 00:30:02
I want to move on to another subject.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:30:02
I got to respond to that.

President Donald Trump 00:30:02
But those states-

Chris Wallace 00:30:02
Gentlemen, I want to move on to another subject.

President Donald Trump 00:30:08
Those states that are not doing well, that are shut down.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:30:10
I got to respond to that.

Chris Wallace 00:30:12
President Trump, you have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease preventer. And in fact, recently you have cited the issue of waiters touching their masks and touching plates. Are you questioning the efficacy of masks?

President Donald Trump 00:30:27
No, I think masks are okay. You have to understand, if you look I mean, I have a mask right here. I put a mask on when I think I need it. Tonight, as an example, everybody's had a test and you've had social distancing and all of the things that you have to, but I wear masks when needed.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:30:42
Just like your rally.

President Donald Trump 00:30:42
When needed, I wear masks.

Chris Wallace 00:30:44
Okay, let me ask.

President Donald Trump 00:30:45
I don't wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from me and he shows up with a big his mask I've ever seen. I will say-

Chris Wallace 00:30:55
Vice President Biden, go ahead, sir.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:30:56
Look, the way to open businesses is give them the wherewithal to be able to open. We provide money the-

Chris Wallace 00:31:03
But I was asking you, sir, about masks.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:31:05
Well, masks make a big difference. His own head of the CDC said, if we just wore masks between now, if everybody wore masks and social distance between now and January, we'd probably save up to 10,0000 lives. It matters.

President Donald Trump 00:31:18
They've also said the opposite.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:31:21
No serious person said the opposite, no serious person.

Chris Wallace 00:31:23
Okay, I want to ask you-

President Donald Trump 00:31:24
Well, look at Dr. Fauci, Dr. Fauci said the opposite.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:31:27
He did not say the opposite.

Chris Wallace 00:31:28
I want to ask you, we've got a little than a minute left in this

President Donald Trump 00:31:29
segment. He said very strongly, "Masks are not good". Then he changed his mind. He said "Masks are good". I'm okay with mask, I'm not fighting masks.

Chris Wallace 00:31:35
I want to ask you both about one last subject because your different approaches has even affected the way that you have campaigned. President Trump, you're holding large rallies with crowds packed together. Thousands of people.

President Donald Trump 00:31:46

Chris Wallace 00:31:48
Outside. Yes, sir. Agreed. Vice President Biden, you were holding much smaller events.

President Donald Trump 00:31:53
Because nobody will show up.

Chris Wallace 00:31:55
People with masks.

President Donald Trump 00:31:56
Well, it's true, nobody shows up to his rallies.

Chris Wallace 00:31:59
All right. In any case, why are you holding the big rallies? Why you not? You go first, sir.

President Donald Trump 00:32:04
Because people want to hear what I have to say. I mean-

Chris Wallace 00:32:08
But are you not worried about us spreading disease?

President Donald Trump 00:32:08
I'm doing my job as the president and I have 25, 35000 people show up at airports. We use airports and hangers and we have a lot of people.

Chris Wallace 00:32:15
Are you not worried about the disease, sir?

President Donald Trump 00:32:17
Well, so far we have had no problem whatsoever. It's outside. That's a big difference, according to the experts. We do them outside. We have tremendous crowds, as you see. I mean and literally on 24 hours notice. And Joe does the circles and has three people someplace.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:32:35
By the way, did you see one of the the last big rallies he had. A reporter came up to him to ask him a question. He said, "No. Stand back. Put on your mask. Have you been tested? I'm far away from those other people". That's what he said. "I can't, I'm going to be okay". He's not worried about you. He's not worried about the people out there breathing out there.

President Donald Trump 00:32:56
We had no negative effect. And we've had 35, 40000 people in these rallies.

Chris Wallace 00:33:03
All right, do you want to just like finish up because I want to move on to our next?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:33:06
Yes, I would. He's been totally irresponsible the way in which he has handled the social distancing and people wearing masks, basically encouraged them not to. He's a fool on this.

President Donald Trump 00:33:16
If you could get the crowds, you would have done the same thing. But you can't. Nobody care, Joe.

Chris Wallace 00:33:21
Gentlemen, can we move on to the-

President Donald Trump 00:33:21
Nobody cares.

Chris Wallace 00:33:21

Chris Wallace 00:33:22
Can we move on to the economy?

President Donald Trump 00:33:24

Chris Wallace 00:33:24
The economy is, I think it's fair to say, recovering faster than expected from the shutdown.

President Donald Trump 00:33:30
Much faster.

Chris Wallace 00:33:31
In the second quarter, the unemployment rate fell to 8.4 percent last month. The Federal Reserve says the hit to growth, which is going to be there, is not going to be nearly as big as they had expected. President Trump, you say we are in a V shaped recovery. Vice President Biden, you say it's more of a K shape. What difference does that mean to the American people in terms of the economy? President Trump, in this segment, you go first.

President Donald Trump 00:34:00
So we've built the greatest economy in history. We closed it down because of the China plague. When the plague came in, we closed it down, which was very hard psychologically to do. He didn't think we should close it down and he was wrong. Again, two million people would be dead now instead of- still 204,000 people is too much. One person is too much. Should have never happened from China. But what happened is, we closed it down and now we're reopening and we're doing record business. We had 10.4 million people in a four month period that we've put back into the workforce. That's a record the likes of which nobody's ever seen before, and he wants to close down the- he will shut it down again. He will destroy this country. A lot of people between drugs and alcohol and depression, when you start shutting it down, you take a look at what's happening at some of your Democrat run states where they have these tough shutdowns. I'm telling you, it's because they don't want to open it. One of them came out last week, you saw that. "Oh, we're going to open up in November 9th". Why November 9th? Because it's after the election. They think they're hurting us by keeping them closed. They're hurting people. People know what to do. They can social distance. They can wash their hands. They can wear masks. They can do whatever they want. But they got to open these states up. When you look at North Carolina, when you look- and these governors are under siege, Pennsylvania, Michigan and a couple of others, you got to open these states up. It's not fair. You're talking about almost it's like being in prison and you look at what's going on with divorce, look at what's going on with alcoholism and drugs, it's a very, very sad thing, and he'll close down the whole country. This guy will close down the whole country and destroy our country. Our country is coming back incredibly well, setting records as it does it. We don't need somebody to come in and say, "let's shut it down".

Chris Wallace 00:35:45
All right. Your two minutes, sir. We're now moved to you. As I said, posing the question. The president says it's a V-shape recovery. You say it's a K-shaped recovery. What's the difference?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:35:57
The difference is millionaires and billionaires like him, in the middle of a COVID crisis have done very well and other billionaires already have made another $300 billion because of his profligate tax proposal and he only focus on the market. But you folks at home, you folks living in Scranton and Claymont and all the small towns and working class towns in America, how well are you doing? This guy paid a total of $750 in taxes.

President Donald Trump 00:36:26
It's a wrong statement.

Chris Wallace 00:36:27
Sir. I understand you've agreed to the two minutes, so please, let him have it.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:36:32
I get my time back. The fact is that he is, in fact, worked on this in a way that he's going to be the first president of United States to leave office, having fewer jobs in his administration than when he became president, fewer jobs than when he became president, the first one in American history. Secondly, the people who have lost their jobs are those people who have been on the front lines, those people who have been saving our lives, those people who have been out there dying. People who have been putting themselves in the way to make sure that we could all try to make it. The idea that he is insisting that we go forward and open when you have almost half the states in America with a significant increase in COVID deaths and COVID cases in the United States of America, and he wants to open it up more. Why is he want to open it up? Why doesn't he take care of the American? You can't fix the economy until you fix the COVID crisis. He has no intention of doing anything about making it better for you all at home in terms of your health and your safety. Schools, why don't schools open? Because it costs a lot of money to open safely. They were going to give, his administration were going to give the teachers and school students mask and then they decided, "No, couldn't do that because it's not a national emergency". They've done nothing to help small businesses. Nothing. They're closing. One in six is now gone. He ought to get on the job and take care of the needs of the American people so we can open safely.

Chris Wallace 00:38:02
All right. Your time is up, sir. We are going to get to the-

President Donald Trump 00:38:04
I have to respond to that.

Chris Wallace 00:38:06
Well, you both had two minutes, sir.

President Donald Trump 00:38:08
Excuse me. He made a statement.

Chris Wallace 00:38:10
So did you.

President Donald Trump 00:38:10
People want their schools open. They don't want to be shut down. They don't want their state shut down. They want their restaurants. I look at New York. It's so sad what's happening in New York. It's almost like a ghost town, and I'm not sure it can ever recover what they've done in New York. People want their places open.

President Donald Trump 00:38:26
They want to get back to their life.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:38:28
People want to be safe.

President Donald Trump 00:38:28
They'll be careful, but they want their schools.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:38:30
People want to be safe.

President Donald Trump 00:38:31
I'm the one that brought back football, by the way, I brought back Big Ten football. It was me and I'm very happy to do it. People of Ohio are very proud of me. You know how I found out?

Chris Wallace 00:38:41
Gentlemen, we are going get to your economic plans going forward in a moment. But first, Mr. President, as you well know, there's a new report that in 2016, the year you were elected president and 2017, your first year as president, that you paid $750 a year in Federal Income Tax each of those years. I know that you pay a lot of other taxes, but I'm asking you the specific question. Is it true that you paid $750 dollars in Federal Income Taxes each of those two years?

President Donald Trump 00:39:16
I paid millions of dollars in taxes, millions of dollars of income tax. Let me just tell you, there was a story in one of the papers that I paid.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:39:25
Show us your tax returns.

President Donald Trump 00:39:26
I paid $38 million one year. I paid $27 million one year.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:39:30
Show us your tax returns.

President Donald Trump 00:39:33
You'll see it as soon as it's finished. You'll see it. If you want to do, go to the board of elections. There's 118 page or so report that says everything I have, every bank I have, I'm totally under leverage because the assets are extremely good and I built a great company.

Chris Wallace 00:39:47
Sir, I'm asking you a specific question, which is-

President Donald Trump 00:39:51
But let me tell you-

Chris Wallace 00:39:52
I understand all of that.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:39:53
Release your tax return.

President Donald Trump 00:39:53
But let me

Chris Wallace 00:39:53
tell you that- No.

President Donald Trump 00:39:53
Go ahead.

Chris Wallace 00:39:56
Mr. President, I'm asking you a question. Will you tell us how much you paid in Federal Income Taxes in 2016 and 2017?

President Donald Trump 00:40:05
Millions of dollars.

Chris Wallace 00:40:06
You paid millions of dollars.

President Donald Trump 00:40:07
Millions of dollars.

Chris Wallace 00:40:08
So not 750.

President Donald Trump 00:40:08
Millions of dollars, and you'll get to see it.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:40:10
When? Inshallah?

President Donald Trump 00:40:12
But let me tell you, Chris, let me just say something that it was the tax laws, I don't want to pay tax. Before I came here, I was a private developer. I was a private business people. Like every other private person, unless they're stupid, they go through the laws and that's what it is. He passed the tax bill that gave us all these privileges for depreciation and for tax credits. We build the building and we get tax credits like the hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue and you get a massive which, by the way, was given to me by the Obama administration, if you can believe that. Now, the man got fired-

Chris Wallace 00:40:47
Is good to know.

President Donald Trump 00:40:48
Right after that happened but that's-

Chris Wallace 00:40:49
Vice President Biden, you want to respond?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:40:51
Yeah, I do want to respond. Look, the tax code that put him in a position that he pays less tax than on on the money a school teacher makes is because of him taking. He says he's smart because he can take advantage of the tax code and he does take advantage of the tax code. That's why I'm going to eliminate the Trump tax cuts and we're going to eliminate those tax cuts.

President Donald Trump 00:41:15
That's okay.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:41:15
And make sure that we invest in the people who, in fact, need the help. People out there need help.

President Donald Trump 00:41:22
But why didn't you do it over the last 25 years?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:41:24
Because you weren't the president and screwing things up.

President Donald Trump 00:41:28
You were a senator and by the way, you were vice president.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:41:29
You're the worst president America has ever had. Come on.

President Donald Trump 00:41:32
Hey Joe, let me just tell you, Joe. I've done more in 47 months. I've done more than you've done in 47 years, Joe. We've done things that you never even thought of doing, including fixing the broken military that you gave me, including taking care of your debts.

Chris Wallace 00:41:47
Mr. President, we're talking about the economy. I'd like to ask you about your plans going forward, because, Mr. Vice President, your economic plan-

President Donald Trump 00:41:54
He has none.

Chris Wallace 00:41:56
- If you were to be elected president, focuses a lot on big government, big taxes, big spending. I want to focus first on the taxes. You propose more than four trillion dollars over a decade in new taxes on individuals making more than $400,000 a year and on corporations. President Trump says that that kind of an increase in taxes is going to hurt the economy as it's just coming out of a recession.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:42:22
Well, just take a look at what is the analysis done by Wall Street firms, points out that my economic plan would create seven million more jobs than his in four years, number one. Number two, it would create an additional one trillion dollars in economic growth because it would be about buying American, that we have to and we're going to make this, federal government spend $600 billion a year on everything from ships, to steel, to buildings, and the like. Under my proposal, we're going to make sure that every penny of that has to be made by a company.

Chris Wallace 00:42:58
But respectfully sir, I'm talking about taxes, not spending.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:43:01
Well, by the way, I'm going to eliminate significant numbers of the tax, I'm going to make the the corporate tax 28 percent, it shouldn't be 21 percent. You have 91 companies federal, I mean, in the Fortune 500, who don't pay a single penny in tax, making billions of dollars.

President Donald Trump 00:43:18
Why didn't you do it before, when you were the vice president with Obama?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:43:20
Because you in fact passed that, that was your tax proposal.

President Donald Trump 00:43:25
He is right, I get it done, and you know what happened.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:43:26
You got it done.

President Donald Trump 00:43:27
Our economy boomed like it's never boomed before.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:43:29
The economy-

Chris Wallace 00:43:29
Mr. Vice President.

Chris Wallace 00:43:31
Mr. President, let me pick up on that. You would continue your free market approach, lower taxes, more deregulation, correct?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:43:39
Not lower taxes for American people.

Chris Wallace 00:43:42
But let me-

President Donald Trump 00:43:42
Excuse me.

Chris Wallace 00:43:44
You talk about the economy booming. It turns out that in Obama's final three years as president, more jobs were created, a million and a half more jobs that in the first three years of your presidency.

President Donald Trump 00:43:56
They had the slowest recovery since 1929. It was the slowest recovery. Also, they took over something that was down here. All you had to do is turn on the lights and you pick up a lot. But they had the slowest economic recovery since 1929. Let me tell you about the stock market. When the stock market goes up, that means jobs. It also means 401K's. If you got in, if you ever became president with your ideas, you want to terminate my taxes. I'll tell you what, you'll lose. Half of the companies that have poured in here will leave and plenty of companies that are already here, they'll leave for other places. They will leave and you will have a depression, the likes of which you've never seen.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:44:37

Chris Wallace 00:44:37
Mr. Vice President.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:44:37
We inherited the worst recession short of a depression in American history. I was asked to bring it back. We were able to have an economic recovery that created the jobs you're talking about. We handed him a booming economy. He blew it.

President Donald Trump 00:44:53
It wasn't booming.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:44:55
He blew it.

President Donald Trump 00:44:55
It was the weakest recovery since 1929.

Chris Wallace 00:44:58
Wait, is it fair to say he blew it when, in fact-

President Donald Trump 00:45:01
When COVID came.

Chris Wallace 00:45:02
- when there was record on low unemployment before COVID?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:45:06
Yeah, because what he did, even before COVID, manufacturing went in the hole.

President Donald Trump 00:45:12
Excuse me, Chris, wait.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:45:13
Number one, number two, number three.

President Donald Trump 00:45:15
They said it would take- no, you are in number two.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:45:17

President Donald Trump 00:45:18
Chris, they said it would take a miracle to bring back manufacturing. I brought back 700,000 jobs. They brought back nothing. They gave up on manufacturing.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:45:28
We did not

President Donald Trump 00:45:28
give up. Probably on the standard fare.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:45:30
I'm the guy who brought back the automobile industry.

President Donald Trump 00:45:31
He totally gave up on manufacturing.

Chris Wallace 00:45:33
All right, let him then.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:45:33
I was asked to bring back Chrysler and General Motors, brought them back right here in the state of Ohio and Michigan. He blew it. They're gone. He blew it. In fact, they're going to-

President Donald Trump 00:45:43
Ohio had the best year it's ever had last year. Michigan had the best year they've ever had.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:45:48
That is not true.

President Donald Trump 00:45:48
Many car companies came in from Germany, from Japan, went to Michigan and went to Ohio, and they didn't come in with you.

Chris Wallace 00:45:56
Mr. Vice President, go ahead.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:45:57
So you take a look at what he's actually done. He's done very little. Trade deals are the same way. He talks about these great trade deals. He talks about the art of the deal. China's perfected the art of the steel. We have a higher deficit with China now than we did before. We have the highest trade deficit with Mexico.

President Donald Trump 00:46:17
China ate your lunch, Joe, and no wonder your son goes in and he takes out billions of dollars, takes out billions of dollars to manage. He makes millions of dollars. Also while we are at it-

Vice President Joe Biden 00:46:28
Simply not true.

President Donald Trump 00:46:30
- why is it? Just out of curiosity, the mayor of Moscow's wife gave your son $3.5 million?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:46:37
That is not true.

President Donald Trump 00:46:37
What did he do to deserve it? What did he do with Burisma to deserve $183,000?

Chris Wallace 00:46:41
Sir, you've asked him a question, let him answer.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:46:45
None of that is true.

President Donald Trump 00:46:46
Oh, really, he didn't get $3.5 million?

Chris Wallace 00:46:48
Mr. President.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:46:49
Is totally-

Chris Wallace 00:46:49
Mr. President, please. You've asked the question.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:46:50
Totally discredited. And by the way-

President Donald Trump 00:46:54
Well, wait, he didn't $3.5 million, Joe? He got $3.5 Million.

Chris Wallace 00:46:56
Mr. President.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:46:59
That is not true.

President Donald Trump 00:47:00
Oh, really?

Chris Wallace 00:47:00
Mr. President, it's an open discussion. Please-

President Donald Trump 00:47:04
No, it's a fact.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:05
That is not a fact.

Chris Wallace 00:47:05
Well, you have raised an issue. Let the vice president answer.

President Donald Trump 00:47:08
Totally discredited. Did Burisma pay $183,000 a month with no experience in energy.

Chris Wallace 00:47:14
Mr. President.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:16
My son did nothing wrong at Burisma.

President Donald Trump 00:47:18
I think he did.

Chris Wallace 00:47:18
Mr. President. Let him answer.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:22
He doesn't want to let me answer because he knows I have the truth. His position has been totally, thoroughly discredited.

President Donald Trump 00:47:27
By who. The media?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:28
By everybody. Well, by the media. By our allies.

President Donald Trump 00:47:31
By the media, because they refuse to talk about it.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:32
By the World Bank.

President Donald Trump 00:47:32
Because they are embarrassed.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:35
By everyone, has discredited. Matter of fact.

Chris Wallace 00:47:38
Mr. President, please stop.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:38
Matter of fact, even the people who testified under oath.

President Donald Trump 00:47:42
So let me ask you this, Joe.

Chris Wallace 00:47:43
No, go ahead, I'm listening to you.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:45
Even the people who-

President Donald Trump 00:47:46
He get $3.5 million from Moscow.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:49
- testified under oath in his administration said, I did my job and I did it very well.

President Donald Trump 00:47:54
Oh, really?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:55
I did it honorably.

President Donald Trump 00:47:55
I'd like to know who they are.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:57
Well, I'll give you the list of the people who testified-

President Donald Trump 00:47:58
I'll fire them.

Chris Wallace 00:47:58
Go ahead sir.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:47:59
Sure. You've already fired most of them because they did a good job.

President Donald Trump 00:48:03
Some people don't do a good job.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:48:03
Well, here's-

Chris Wallace 00:48:05
Go ahead. Wait a minute. You get the final word, Mr.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:48:07
Well, it's hard to get any word in with this clown. Excuse me, this person.

President Donald Trump 00:48:11
Let me just say, Joe.

Chris Wallace 00:48:11
No, Mr. President.

President Donald Trump 00:48:14
Three and a half million, Joe.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:48:14
That is simply not true.

President Donald Trump 00:48:15
Why didn't he deserve $3.5 million from Moscow?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:48:18
Look, here's the deal. We want to talk about families and ethics. I don't want to do that. I mean, his family we could talk about all night. His family's already-

President Donald Trump 00:48:27
My family.

Chris Wallace 00:48:27
No, gentlemen.

President Donald Trump 00:48:29
My family lost a fortune by coming down and helping us with governance.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:48:32
That's such a-

Chris Wallace 00:48:34
Mr. President.

President Donald Trump 00:48:34
Every single one of them lost their fortune.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:48:36
This is not about my family or his family. It's about your family, the American people

President Donald Trump 00:48:41
They didn't get $3.5 million.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:48:42
That's not true. It doesn't want to talk about what you need. You, the American people. It's about you. That's who we're talking about.

Chris Wallace 00:48:51
All right. That's the end of the segment, we're moving on.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:48:54
It didn't take them.

Chris Wallace 00:48:55
Vice president. No.

President Donald Trump 00:48:56
Chris, can I be honest. It's a very important question.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:48:58
Try to be honest.

President Donald Trump 00:48:58
He stood up and he threatened Ukraine with a billion dollar.

Chris Wallace 00:48:59
The answer to the question is no. Sir?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:49:04
That is absolutely not true. [Crosstalk 00:49:06]

Chris Wallace 00:49:10
Gentleman. I hate to raise my voice but I seem to be, why shouldn't I be different than the two of you? So here's the deal.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:49:17
That's great point.

Chris Wallace 00:49:20
We have six segments. We have ended that segment, we're going to go to the next segment. In that segment, you each are going to have two uninterrupted moments. In those two uninterrupted minutes, Mr. President, you can say anything you want. I'm going to ask a question about race, but if you want to answer about something else, go ahead. But I think the country would be better served if we allowed both people to speak with fewer interruptions. I'm appealing to you, sir, to do that.

President Donald Trump 00:49:45
Well, and him too.

Chris Wallace 00:49:46
Well, frankly, you've been doing more interrupting than he has.

President Donald Trump 00:49:48
Well, that's all right but he does plenty.

Chris Wallace 00:49:50
Well, less than-

President Donald Trump 00:49:51
He does plenty.

Chris Wallace 00:49:52
No, less than you have. Let's please continue on. The issue of race. Vice President Biden, you say that President Trump's response to the violence in Charlottesville three years ago, when he talked about very fine people on both sides, was what directly led you to launch this run for president.

President Donald Trump 00:50:13
Oh, yeah, sure.

Chris Wallace 00:50:14
President Trump, you have often said that you believe you have done more for Black Americans than any president, with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln.

President Donald Trump 00:50:25
That's true.

Chris Wallace 00:50:25
My question for the two of you is, why should voters trust you rather than your opponent to deal with the race issues facing this country over the next four years? Vice President Biden, you go first.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:50:37
It's about equity and equality, it's about decency, it's about the Constitution, and we have never walked away from trying to require equity for everyone, equality for the whole of America. But we've never accomplished it, but we've never walked away from it like he has done. It is true. The reason I got in the race is when those people- Close your eyes, remember what those people look like coming out of the fields, carrying torches, their veins, bulging, just spewing anti-Semitic bile and accompanied by the Ku Klux Klan. A young woman got killed and they asked the president what he thought he said, "There were very fine people on both sides". No president's ever said anything like that.

President Donald Trump 00:51:19
You finish the statement.

Chris Wallace 00:51:20
It is his minute, sir.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:51:22
Second point I'd make to you, is that when Floyd was killed, when Mr. Floyd was killed, there was a peaceful protest in front of the White House. What did he do? He came out of his bunker, had the military to use tear gas on them so he could walk across to a church and hold up a Bible. Then what happened after that? The bishop of that very church said that it was a disgrace. The general who was with him said all he ever wants to do is divide people, not unite people at all. This is a president who has used everything as a dog whistle to try to generate racist hatred, racist division. This is a man who, in fact, you talk about helping African-Americans. One in 1,000 African-Americans has been killed because of the coronavirus. And if he doesn't do something quickly by the end of the year, one in 500 will have been killed, one in 500 African-Americans. This man is a savior of African-Americans? This man cares at all? This man has done virtually nothing. Look, the fact is that you have to look at what he talks about. You have to look at what he did and what he did has been disastrous for the African-American community.

Chris Wallace 00:52:36
President Trump, you have two minutes. Why should Americans trust you over your opponent to deal with race issue?

President Donald Trump 00:52:42
You did a crime bill in 1994 where you call them super predators? African-Americans are super predators and they've never forgotten it.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:52:51
I've never said.

Chris Wallace 00:52:53
No, sir. It's his two minute.

President Donald Trump 00:52:54
So you did that and they call you super predator and I'm letting people out of jail now that you have treated the African-American population community, you have treated the Black community about as bad as anybody in this country. You did the 1990. And that's why if you look at the polls, I'm doing better than any Republican has done in a long time because they saw what you did. You call them super predators and you've called them worse than that, because you look back at your testimony over the years, you've called them a lot worse than that as far as the church is concerned, and as far as the generals are concerned, we just got the support of 250 military leaders and generals, total support. Law enforcement, almost every law enforcement group in the United States. I have Florida, I have Texas, I have Ohio. I have every, excuse me, Portland, the Sheriff just came out today and he said, "I support President Trump". I don't think you have any law enforcement. You can't even say the word law enforcement, because if you say those words, you're going to lose all of your radical left supporters. Why aren't you saying those words, Joe? Why don't you say the words law enforcement? Because you know what? If they called us in Portland, we would put out that fire in a half an hour. But they won't do it because they're run by radical left Democrats. If you look at Chicago, if you look at any place you want to look, Seattle, they heard we were coming in the following day and they put up their hands and we got back Seattle, Minneapolis. We got it back, Joe, because we believe in law and order.

President Donald Trump 00:54:22
But you don't. The top 10 cities and just about the top 40 cities are run by Democrats and in many cases radical left. And they've got you wrapped around their finger, Joe, to a point where you don't want to say anything about law and order. I'll tell you what, the people of this country want and demand law and order and you're afraid to even say it.

Chris Wallace 00:54:43
All right. I want to return to the question of race. Vice President Biden, after the grand jury in the Breonna Taylor case decided not to charge any of the police with homicide, you said it raises the question, "whether justice could be equally applied in America". Do you believe that there is a separate but unequal system of justice for blacks in this country?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:55:08
Yes, there is a systemic injustice in this country, in education and work and in in law enforcement and the way in which is enforced. But, look, the vast majority of police officers are good, decent, honorable men and women. They risk their lives every day to take care of us. But there are some bad apples. When they occur, when they find them, they have to be sorted out. They have to be held accountable. What I'm going to do as President of the United States is called together an entire group of people at the White House. Well, everything from the civil rights groups to the police officers, to police chiefs, and we're going to work this out. We're going to work this out so we change the way in which we have more transparency, in when these things happen. These cops aren't happy to see what happened to George Floyd. These cops aren't happy to see what happened to Breonna Taylor. Most don't like it, but we have to have a system where people are held accountable. By the way, violence in response, is never appropriate. Peaceful protest is, violence is never appropriate.

Chris Wallace 00:56:13
All right, Mr-

President Donald Trump 00:56:13
What is peaceful protest? When they run through the middle of the town-

Chris Wallace 00:56:17
President Trump.

President Donald Trump 00:56:17
- and try and burn down your stores and kill people all over the place?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:56:22
That is not peaceful protest.

Chris Wallace 00:56:22
President Trump, I'm not asking-

President Donald Trump 00:56:22
No, it's not but you say it is.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:56:24
I did not say.

Chris Wallace 00:56:24
President Trump, I'd like to continue with the issue of race. I promise we're going to get to the issue of law and order in a moment.

President Donald Trump 00:56:29

Chris Wallace 00:56:30
This month, your administration directed federal agencies to end racial sensitivity training that addresses white privilege or critical race theory. Why did you decide to do that? To end racial sensitivity training? And, do you believe that there is systemic racism in this country, Sir?

President Donald Trump 00:56:50
I ended it because it's racist. I ended it because a lot of people were complaining that they were asked to do things that were absolutely insane, that it was a radical revolution that was taking place in our military, in our schools, all over the place, and you know it and so does everybody else, and he would know it.

Chris Wallace 00:57:10
What is radical about racial sensitivity training?

President Donald Trump 00:57:13
If you were a certain person, you had no status in life. It was sort of a reversal. If you look at the people, we were paying people hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach very bad ideas and frankly, very sick ideas. Really, they were teaching people to hate our country. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to allow that to happen. We have to go back to the core values of this country. They were teaching people that our country is a horrible place, it's a racist place, and they were teaching people to hate our country. I'm not going to allow that to happen.

Chris Wallace 00:57:47
Vice President Biden.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:57:48
Nobody's doing that. He's the racist.

President Donald Trump 00:57:51
You just don't.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:57:51
Here's the deal. I know a lot more about this.

Chris Wallace 00:57:54
Let him finish.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:57:56
The fact is that there is racial insensitivity, people have to be made aware of what other people feel like, what insults them, what is demeaning to them. It's important to people know. They don't want to, many people don't want to hurt other people's feelings, but to me, it makes a big difference. It makes a gigantic difference in the way a child is able to grow up and have a sense of self-esteem. It's a little bit like how this guy and his friends look down on so many people. They look down their nose on people like Irish Catholics, like me I grew up in Scranton. They look down on people who don't have money. They look down on people who are of a different faith. They look down on people who are a different color. In fact, we're all Americans. The only way we're going to bring this country together is bring everybody together. There's nothing we cannot do. If we do it together, we can take this on and we can defeat racism in America.

Chris Wallace 00:58:51
President Trump, sir.

President Donald Trump 00:58:52
During the Obama-Biden administration, there was tremendous division. There was hatred. You look at Ferguson, you look at- You go to very many places, look at Oakland, look what happened in Oakland, look what happened in Baltimore. Look what happened. Frankly, it was more violent than what I'm even seeing now.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:59:09
Oh my Lord.

President Donald Trump 00:59:10
But the reason-

Vice President Joe Biden 00:59:10
This is ridiculous.

President Donald Trump 00:59:11
- is that the Democrats have run these cities-

Vice President Joe Biden 00:59:14
Absolutely ridiculous.

President Donald Trump 00:59:14
- don't want to talk like you about law and order.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:59:17
Violent crime.

President Donald Trump 00:59:17
You still haven't mentioned. Are you in favor of law and order?

Vice President Joe Biden 00:59:20
I'm in favor of law. You follow a little bit of order.

President Donald Trump 00:59:22
Are you in favor of law and order?

Chris Wallace 00:59:22
You asked him a question, let him finish.

Vice President Joe Biden 00:59:27
Law and order with justice where people get treated fairly.

President Donald Trump 00:59:31

Vice President Joe Biden 00:59:31
The fact of the matter is violent crime went down 15 percent in our administration. It's gone up on his watch.

President Donald Trump 00:59:40
It went down much more in ours.

Chris Wallace 00:59:42
All right, We're done. [ Crosstalk 00:59:43] Mr. President, you are going to be very happy because we're now going to talk about law and order.

President Donald Trump 00:59:50
The places we had trouble with a democratic run cities.

Chris Wallace 00:59:53
That's exactly my question.

Chris Wallace 00:59:54
There has been a dramatic increase in homicides in America this summer particularly, and you often blame that on Democratic mayors and Democratic governors. But in fact, there have been equivalent spikes in Republican led cities like Tulsa and Fort Worth. So the question is, is this really a party issue?

President Donald Trump 01:00:14
I think it's a party issue. You can bring in a couple of examples. But if you look at Chicago, what's going on in Chicago where 53 people were shot and eight died, shot. If you look at New York, where it's going up like nobody's ever seen anything, the numbers are going up 100, 150, 200 percent crime.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:00:31
Republican cities.

President Donald Trump 01:00:32
It is crazy what's going on. He doesn't want to say law and order because he can't because he'll lose his radical left supporters. Once he does that, it's over with. But if he ever got to run this country and they ran it the way he would want to run it, we would have.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:00:47
We would run it the way-.

President Donald Trump 01:00:47
Our suburbs would be gone, by the way. Our suburbs would be gone, and you would see problems like you've never seen before.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:00:53
He wouldn't know a suburb unless he took a wrong turn.

President Donald Trump 01:00:56
I know suburbs so much better than you.

Chris Wallace 01:00:56
Gentlemen, hey, wait a minute.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:00:58
I was raised in the suburbs. This is not 1950. All these dog whistles and racism don't work anymore. Suburbs are, by and large integrated. There's many people today driving their kids to soccer practice and/or to black and white and Hispanic in the same car as there have been any time in the past. What really is a threat to the suburbs and their safety is his failure to deal with COVID. They're dying in the suburbs. His failure to deal with the environment, they're being flooded. They're being burned out because his refusal to do anything. That's why the suburbs are in trouble.

Chris Wallace 01:01:31
I do want to talk about this issue of law and order, though. In the joint recommendation that came from the Biden-Bernie Sanders task force, you talked about "reimagining policing". First of all, what is "reimagining policing" mean and do you support? If I might finish the question, what does "reimagining policing" mean? And do you support the Black Lives Matter call for community control of policing?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:02:03
Look, what I support is the police having the opportunity to deal with the problems they face, and I've totally opposed to defunding the police officers. As a matter of fact, police, local police, the only one defunding in his budget, calls for $400 million dollar cut in local law enforcement assistance. They need more assistance. They need when they show up for a 911 call, to have someone with them as a psychologist or psychiatrist, to keep them from having to use force and be able to talk people down. We have to have community policing like we had before where the officers get to know the people in the communities. That's when crime went down. It didn't go up. It went down. And so we have to be messing with-

President Donald Trump 01:02:44
That's not what they are talking about, Chris. He's talking about defunding the police.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:02:48
That is not true.

President Donald Trump 01:02:49
He doesn't have any law support. He has no law enforcement.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:02:53
That's not true.

President Donald Trump 01:02:54
He has almost nothing. Oh really, who do you have? Name one group that supports you. Name one group that came out and supported you. Go ahead. Think, we have time.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:03:03
We don't have time to do anything.

President Donald Trump 01:03:04
No, think right now. Name one law enforcement group that came out in support of you. There aren't any.

Chris Wallace 01:03:09
Now, gentlemen, I think I'm going to take back the moderator's role and I want to get to another subject, which is the issue of protests in many cities that have turned violent. In Portland, Oregon, especially, we had more than 100 straight days of protests, which I think you would agree, you talk about peaceful protests, many of those turned into riots. Mr. Vice President, you say that people who commit crimes should be held accountable. The question I have, though, is as the Democratic nominee and earlier tonight, you said that you are the Democratic Party right now, have you ever called the Democratic mayor of Portland or the Democratic governor of Oregon and said, "Hey, you've got to stop this, bring in the National Guard, do whatever it takes, but you'd stop the days and months of violence in Portland'?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:03:59
I don't hold public office now. I am a former vice president. I've made it clear in my public statements that the violence should be prosecuted, it should be prosecuted and anyone who commits it should be prosecuted.

Chris Wallace 01:04:11
But you've never called for the people. That's the leader-

President Donald Trump 01:04:13
He had never done that.

Chris Wallace 01:04:13
Excuse me, sir. You had never called for the leaders in Portland and in Oregon to call and bring in the National Guard and knock off 100 days of riots?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:04:24
They can, in fact, take care of it if he just stay out of the way.

President Donald Trump 01:04:28
Oh, really? Well, I sent the US Marshalls to get the killer of a young man in the middle of the street and they shot him and for three days, Portland didn't do anything. I sent the US Marshals, they took care of business.

Chris Wallace 01:04:41
President Trump. Go ahead, sir.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:04:42
By the way, his own former spokesperson said, "Riots and chaos and violence help his cause". That's what this is all about.

President Donald Trump 01:04:51
I don't know who said that.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:04:52
I do.

President Donald Trump 01:04:53

Vice President Joe Biden 01:04:54
I think Kellyanne Conway.

President Donald Trump 01:04:56
I don't think she said that.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:04:57
She said that.

President Donald Trump 01:04:58
I don't think so.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:04:58
Here's the point. Point is that that's what he is keeps trying to rile everything up. He doesn't want to calm things down instead of going in and talking to people and saying, "let's get everybody together, figure out how to deal with this". What does he do? He just pours gasoline in the fire, constantly and every single solitary.

Chris Wallace 01:05:19
To end this, button up this segment, I'm going to give you a minute to answer, sir. You have repeatedly criticized-

President Donald Trump 01:05:24
Does it mean I have to answer his stuff.

Chris Wallace 01:05:26
You have repeatedly-

President Donald Trump 01:05:26
Wait a second you have made a statement-

Chris Wallace 01:05:26
No, you've been talking back and forth. I'm asking you.

President Donald Trump 01:05:31
I would love to know-

Chris Wallace 01:05:31

President Donald Trump 01:05:32
I would love to end it.

Chris Wallace 01:05:33
If you want to switch seats, we could do that. But I'm not-

President Donald Trump 01:05:37
Sending the National Guard. It would be over. There'd be no problem.

Chris Wallace 01:05:39

President Donald Trump 01:05:40
But they don't want to accept the National Guard.

Chris Wallace 01:05:42
You have repeatedly criticized the the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities, as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland?

President Donald Trump 01:06:05
Sure, I'm willing to do that.

Chris Wallace 01:06:06
Are you prepared to specifically-

Vice President Joe Biden 01:06:07
Do it.

Chris Wallace 01:06:08
Go ahead, sir.

President Donald Trump 01:06:08
I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing.

Chris Wallace 01:06:13
So what are you saying?

President Donald Trump 01:06:15
I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

Chris Wallace 01:06:16
Well, then do it, sir.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:06:17
Say it, do it. Say it.

President Donald Trump 01:06:20
You want to call them. What do you want to call them? Give me a name. Go ahead. Who would you like me to condemn?

Chris Wallace 01:06:22
White supremacist and right-wing militia.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:06:23
Proud boys.

President Donald Trump 01:06:26
Proud boys, stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left, because this is not a right-wing problem, this is a left wing.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:06:37
His own FBI Director said, unlike white supremacist, Antifa is an idea, not an organization-

President Donald Trump 01:06:44
Oh you got to be kidding me.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:06:44
- not militia, that's what his FBI Director said.

Chris Wallace 01:06:48

President Donald Trump 01:06:49
Well, then you know what, he is wrong.

Chris Wallace 01:06:51
We're done, sir. We're moving on to the next [ Crosstalk: 01:06: 53].

President Donald Trump 01:06:55
Not an idea. Antifa is bad.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:06:56
Everybody in your administration tells you the truth, it's a bad idea.

President Donald Trump 01:07:00
I tell you what-

Vice President Joe Biden 01:07:00
You have no idea.

President Donald Trump 01:07:02
Antifa is a dangerous radical group.

Chris Wallace 01:07:04
All right, gentlemen, we're now moving on to the Trump and Biden records.

President Donald Trump 01:07:07
You ought to be careful with them, they'll overthrow you in prisons.

Chris Wallace 01:07:09
I'm going to ask a question. When the president seeks a second term, it is generally a referendum on his record, but Vice President Biden, you like to quote one of your dad's sayings, which is, "Don't compare me to the Almighty, compare me to the alternative". And in this case, sir, you are the alternative. Looking at both of your records, I'm going to ask each of you, why should voters elect you president over your opponent? In this segment, President Trump, you go first, two minutes.

President Donald Trump 01:07:39
Because there is never been an administration or president who has done more than I've done in a period of three and a half years, and that's despite the impeachment hoax. You saw what happened today with Hillary Clinton, where it was a whole big con job. But despite going through all of these things where I had a fight, both flanks and behind me and above, there has never been an administration that's done what I've done. The greatest before COVID came in, the greatest economy in history, lowest unemployment numbers. Everything was good, everything was going. By the way, there was unity going to happen. People were calling me for the first time in years. They were calling and they were saying, it's time, maybe. Then what happened? We got hit, but now we're building it back up again. Rebuilding of the military, including Space Force and all of the other things, a fixing of the the VA, which was a mess under him, 308, 000 people died because they didn't have proper healthcare. It was a mess. We now got a 91 percent approval rating at the VA, our vets, we take care of our vets, but we've rebuilt our military. The job that we've done. I'll tell you something, some people say maybe the most important, by the end of the first term, I'll have approximately 300 federal judges and court of appeals judges, 300 and hopefully three great Supreme Court judges, justices. That is a record the likes of which very few people and you know one of the reasons I have so many judges? Because President Obama and him left me 128 judges to fill. When you leave office, you don't leave any judges. That's like you just don't do that. They left 128 openings. If I were a member of his party, because they have a little different philosophy, I'd say if you left us 128 openings, you can't be a good president, you can't be a good vice president, but I want to thank you because it gives us almost it'll probably be above that number by the end of this term, 300 judges. It's a record.

Chris Wallace 01:09:43
Looking at both your records, why should voters elect you president as opposed to President Trump? You have two minutes uninterrupted.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:09:50
Under this president, we become weaker, sicker, poor, more divided and more violent. When I was vice president, we inherited a recession. I was asked to fix it. I did. We left him a booming economy and he caused the recession. With regard to being weaker, the fact is that I've gone head to head with Putin and made it clear to him we're not going to take any of his stuff. He's Putin's puppy. He still refuses to even say anything to Putin about the bounty on the heads of American soldiers.

President Donald Trump 01:10:23
Your son $3.5 million.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:10:26
By the way, my son-

Chris Wallace 01:10:26
Wait a minute. Mr. President, your campaign agreed to both sides would get two minute answers uninterrupted. Well, your side agreed to it. Why don't you observe what your campaign agreed to as a ground rule, Okay, sir?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:10:41
He never keeps his word.

Chris Wallace 01:10:43

Vice President Joe Biden 01:10:43
I'm not answering this.

Chris Wallace 01:10:44
That was a rhetorical question.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:10:46
Can you add back 30 seconds?

Chris Wallace 01:10:48
Yes, you may have.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:10:49
All right.

Chris Wallace 01:10:49
Go ahead.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:10:50
So thirdly, we're poor. The billionaires have got much more wealthy by a tune of over four, $300-$400 billion dollars more just since COVID. You in the home, you got less. You're in more trouble than you were before. In terms of being more violent. When we were in office, there were 15 percent less violence in America than there is today. He's president of the United States. It's on his watch. With regard to more divided, the nation, it can't stay divided. We can't be this way. Speaking of my son, the way you talk about the military, the way you talk about them being losers and just being suckers, my son was in Iraq. He spent a year there. He got the Bronze Star, he got the Conspicuous Service Medal. He was not a loser. He was a patriot and the people left behind there were heroes

President Donald Trump 01:11:47

Vice President Joe Biden 01:11:48
I resent-

President Donald Trump 01:11:48
Are you talking about Hunter?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:11:49
I'm talking about my son, Beau Biden you're talking about-

President Donald Trump 01:11:52
Well, I don't know-

President Donald Trump 01:11:53
I don't know, Beau. I know Hunter. Hunter got thrown out of the military. He was thrown out, dishonorably discharged.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:12:00
That's not true, he wasn't dishonorably discharged.

President Donald Trump 01:12:01
For cocaine use, and he didn't have a job until you became vice president.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:12:04
None of that is true.

President Donald Trump 01:12:05
Once you became vice president, he made a fortune in Ukraine, in China, in Moscow and various other places.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:12:09
That is simply not true.

President Donald Trump 01:12:12
He made a fortune and he didn't have a job.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:12:13
My son, like a lot of people we know at home, had a drug problem. He's overtaken it. He's fixed it. He's worked on it, and I'm proud of him. I'm proud of my son.

President Donald Trump 01:12:26
But why was he given tens of millions of dollars?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:12:28
He wasn't given tens of millions of dollars. That is totally discredited.

Chris Wallace 01:12:36
We've already been through this. I think the American people would rather hear about more substantial subjects.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:12:41
So do I.

Chris Wallace 01:12:41
Well, as the moderator, sir, I'm going to make a judgment call here.

President Donald Trump 01:12:45
I know but when somebody gets $3.5 million from the mayor of Moscow. I think it's-

Vice President Joe Biden 01:12:48
That is not true. That report is totally discredited.

President Donald Trump 01:12:51
Why did he get it?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:12:52
Mitt Romney on that committee said it wasn't worth taxpayers' money. That report was written for political reasons.

Chris Wallace 01:12:58
I'd like to talk about climate change.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:13:00
So would I.

Chris Wallace 01:13:01
Okay. The forest fires in the West are raging now. They have burned millions of acres. They have displaced hundreds of thousands of people. When state officials there blamed the fires on climate change, Mr President, you said, "I don't think the science knows". Over your four years, you have pulled the US out of the Paris Climate Accord. You have rolled back a number of Obama environmental records. What do you believe about the science of climate change and what will you do in the next four years to confront it?

President Donald Trump 01:13:36
I want crystal clean water and air. I want beautiful clean air. We have now the lowest carbon. If you look at our numbers right now, we are doing phenomenally. But I haven't destroyed our businesses. Our businesses aren't put out of commission. If you look at the Paris Accord, it was a disaster from our standpoint. People are actually very happy about what's going on because our businesses are doing well. As far as the fires are concerned, you need forest management. In addition to everything else, the forest floors are loaded up with trees, dead trees that are years old and they're like tinder and leaves and everything else. You drop a cigarette in there, the whole forest burns out. You've got to have forest management.

Chris Wallace 01:14:17
What do you believe about the science of climate change, sir?

President Donald Trump 01:14:22
I believe that we have to do everything we can to have immaculate air, immaculate water and do whatever else we can that's good. We're planting a billion trees, the Billion Tree Project, and it's very exciting for a lot of people.

Chris Wallace 01:14:33
You believe that human pollution, gas, greenhouse gas emissions contributes to the global warming of the planet?

President Donald Trump 01:14:40
I think a lot of things do, but I think to an extent, yes, but I also think we have to do better management of our forests. Every year I get the call. California is burning. If that was cleaned, if that were, if you had forest management. Good forest management, you wouldn't be getting those calls. In Europe, they live their forest cities, they call forest cities, they maintain their forests, they manage their forests. I was with the head of a major country, it's a forest city. He said, "Sir, we have trees that are far more, they ignite much easier than California. They shouldn't be that problem". I spoke with the governor about it. I'm getting along very well with the governor. But I said, "At some point, you can't every year have hundreds of thousands of acres of land just burned to the ground". That's burning down because of a lack of manpower

Chris Wallace 01:15:33
But sir, if you believe in the science of climate change, why have you rolled back the Obama Clean Power Plan, which limited carbon emissions and power plants? Why have you relaxed?

President Donald Trump 01:15:44
Because it was driving energy prices through the sky.

Chris Wallace 01:15:46
Why have you relaxed fuel economy standards that are going to create more pollution from cars and trucks?

President Donald Trump 01:15:52
Well, not really, because what's happening is the car is much less expensive and it's a much safer car and you're talking about a tiny difference. Then what would happen because of the cost of the car, you would have at least double and triple the number of cars purchased. We have the old slugs out there that are 10, 12 years old. If you did that, the car would be safer. It would be much cheaper by $3,500.

Chris Wallace 01:16:13
But in the case of California, they've simply ignored your rules on that.

President Donald Trump 01:16:15
No, but you would take a lot of cars off the market because people would be able to afford a car. By the way, we're going to see how that turns out, but a lot of people agree with me, many people. The car has gotten so expensive because they have computers all over the place for an extra little bit of gasoline. I'm okay with electric cars, too. I think I'm all for electric cars. I've given big incentives for electric cars, but what they've done in California is just crazy.

Chris Wallace 01:16:43
All right, Vice President Biden, I'd like you to respond to the president's climate change record, but I also want to ask you about a concern. You proposed two trillion dollars in green jobs. You talk about new limits not abolishing, but new limits on fracking, ending the use of fossil fuels to generate electricity by 2035 and zero net emission of greenhouse gases by 2050. The president says a lot of these things would tank the economy and cost millions of jobs.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:17:12
He's absolutely wrong, number one. Number two, if in fact, during our administration, the Recovery Act, I was in charge, able to bring down the cost of renewable energy to cheaper than or as cheap as coal and gas and oil. Nobody's going to build another coal fired plant in America. No one's going to build another oil fired plant in America. They're going to move to renewable energy, number one. Number two, we're going to make sure that we are able to take the federal fleet and turn it into a fleet that's run on their electric vehicles. Making sure that we can do that, we're going to put 500,000 charging stations and all of the highways that we're going to be building in the future. We're going to build a economy that, in fact, is going to provide for the ability us to take four million buildings and make sure that they, in fact, are weatherized in a way that, in fact, they'll emit significantly less gas and oil because the heat will not be going out. There's so many things that we can do now to create thousands and thousands of jobs. We can get to net zero in terms of energy production by 2035, not only not costing people jobs, creating jobs, creating millions of good paying jobs, not 15 bucks an hour, but prevailing wage by having a new infrastructure that, in fact, is green. The first thing I will do, I will rejoin the Paris Accord. I will join the Paris Accord, because with us out of it, look what's happening, it's all falling apart. Talk about someone who has no relationship with foreign policy. Brazil, the rainforest in Brazil are being torn down, are being ripped down. More carbon is absorbed in that rainforest and every bit of carbon that's emitted in the United States. Instead of doing something about that, I would be gathering up and making sure we had the countries of the world coming up with $20 billion and say "Here's $20 billion. Stop tearing down the forest. If you don't, then you're going to have significant economic consequences".

Chris Wallace 01:19:19
What about the argument that President Trump basically says that you have to balance environmental interests and economic interests and he's drawn his line?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:19:29
Well, he hadn't drawn a line. He still, for example, he wants to make sure that methane is not a problem. You can now emit more methane without it being a problem. Methane.

President Donald Trump 01:19:38
Not true.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:19:39
This is a guy who says that you don't have to have mileage standards for automobiles that exist now. This is a guy who says that--

President Donald Trump 01:19:46
Is not true.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:19:46
Well, the fact that- it's all true. Here's the deal.

President Donald Trump 01:19:50
He's talking about the Green New Deal and it's not two billion or 20 billion, as you said, it's $100 trillion.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:19:57
I'm talking about supplying the--

Chris Wallace 01:19:58
Let him talk for a minute then you can go.

President Donald Trump 01:19:58
They want to reap down buildings and rebuild the building. It's the dumbest most ridiculous.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:20:03
No, that is not.

President Donald Trump 01:20:04
Where airplanes are out of business, where two car systems are out, where they want to take out the cows too.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:20:10
Not true.

President Donald Trump 01:20:10
You know that's not true either, right?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:20:12
Not true.

President Donald Trump 01:20:12
This is a 100 trillion. That's more money than our country could make in 100 years.

[No Speaker] 01:20:18
It simply not the case. [Crosstalk: 01:20:18]

Chris Wallace 01:20:20
All right. Wait a minute, sir. I actually have studied your plan and it includes upgrading four million buildings, weatherizing two million homes over four years, building one and a half million energy efficient homes. So the question becomes, the president is saying, I think some people who support the president would say that sounds like it's going to cost a lot of money and hurt the economy.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:20:46
What it's going to do, it's going to create thousands and millions of jobs, good paying jobs.

Chris Wallace 01:20:51
Let him finish, sir.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:20:52
He don't know how to do that.

President Donald Trump 01:20:53
Hundred trillion dollars.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:20:54
The fact is, it's going to create millions of good paying jobs and these tax incentives for people to weatherize, which he wants to get rid of. It's going to make the economy much safer. Look how much we're paying now to deal with the hurricanes, with the deal with-- by the way, he has an answer for hurricanes. He said, "Maybe we should drop a nuclear weapon on them".

President Donald Trump 01:21:13
I never said that, Joe. You made it up.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:21:16
Here's the deal.

President Donald Trump 01:21:17
You make up all of these.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:21:18
We're going to be in a position where we can create hard, hard, good jobs by making sure the environment is clean and we all are in better shape. We spend billions of dollars now, billions of dollars on floods, hurricanes, rising seas. We're in real trouble. Look what's happened just in the Midwest with these storms that come through and wipe out entire sections in counties in Iowa, they didn't happen before. They're because of global warming, we make up 15 percent of the world's problem. We in fact, but the rest of the world, we've got to get them to come along. That's what we have to get back into the Paris Accord.

Chris Wallace 01:22:00
All right, gentlemen we-

President Donald Trump 01:22:01
Wait a minute Chris, so why didn't he do it for 47 years? You were vice president. Why didn't you get the world? China sends up real dirt into the air. Russia does, India does, they all do. We're supposed to be good. By the way, he made a couple of statements. The Green New Deal is $100 trillion, not $20 billion.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:22:17
That is not my plan.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:22:18
The Green New Deal is not my plan.

President Donald Trump 01:22:19
Well, he want to rebuild this building.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:22:21
If he knew anything about it [Crosstalk: 01:22:22]

President Donald Trump 01:22:24

Chris Wallace 01:22:24
He made a statement about the military. He said I said something about the military. He and his friends made it up and then they went with it. I never said it.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:22:32
That is not true.

Chris Wallace 01:22:32
Okay. We are done with the segment, Mr. Vice President-

President Donald Trump 01:22:35
He called the military, stupid bastards.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:22:38
I did not say that.

President Donald Trump 01:22:38
He said it on tape. He said stupid bastards.

Chris Wallace 01:22:40
Please, sir, stop.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:22:40
That is not true.

President Donald Trump 01:22:42
I would never say that. [ Crosstalk: 01:22:42]

Vice President Joe Biden 01:22:45
Play it.

Chris Wallace 01:22:45
Go ahead.

President Donald Trump 01:22:45
You're on tape.

Chris Wallace 01:22:45
Mr. Vice President answered his final question.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:22:50
The final question is, I can't remember which of all his ranting is about too much.

Chris Wallace 01:22:54
I'm having a little trouble myself, but and about the economy and about this question of what it's going to cost.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:23:01
The economy.

Chris Wallace 01:23:02
The Green New Deal and the idea of what your environmental changes will do.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:23:06
The Green New Deal will pay for itself as we move forward. We're not going to build plants that, in fact, are great polluting plants. We're going to build the-

Chris Wallace 01:23:14
But do you support the Green New Deal?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:23:16
Pardon me.

Chris Wallace 01:23:16
You support the-

Vice President Joe Biden 01:23:17
No, I don't support the Green New Deal.

President Donald Trump 01:23:18
Oh, you don't? Oh, well, that's a big statement.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:23:21
I support the Biden [ Crosstalk 01:23: 20]

President Donald Trump 01:23:21
That means you just lost the radical left. I said, oh you don't.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:23:24
I support the Biden plan that I put forward.

Chris Wallace 01:23:27

Vice President Joe Biden 01:23:28
The Biden plan, which is different than what he calls the radical Green New Deal.

Chris Wallace 01:23:33
All right, gentlemen, final segment, election integrity. As we meet tonight, millions of Americans are receiving mail-in ballots or going to vote early. How confident should we be that this will be a fair election, and what are you prepared to do over the next five plus weeks? Because it will not only be to Election Day, but also counting some ballots, mail-in ballots after Election Day. What are you prepared to do to reassure the American people that the next president will be the legitimate winner of this election? In this final segment, Mr. Vice President, you go first.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:24:11
Prepare to let people vote. They should go to, decide how they're going to vote, when they're going to vote and what means by which they're going to vote. His own Homeland Security Director, and as well as the FBI director, says there is no evidence at all that mail-in ballots are a source of being manipulated and cheating. They said that. The fact is that they're going to be millions of people because of COVID that are going to be voting by mail-in ballots like he does, by the way. He sits behind the Resolute Desk and sends his ballot to Florida, number one. Number two, we're going to make sure that those people who want to vote in person are able to vote because they're not, poll watchers are there to make sure they can socially distance. The polls are open on time and the polls stay open until the votes are counted. This is all about trying to dissuade people from voting because he's trying to scare people into thinking that it's not going to be a legitimate. Show up and vote. You will determine the outcome of this election. Vote, vote, vote. If you're able to vote early in your state, vote early. If you're able to vote in person, vote in person, vote whatever way is the best way for you, because you will. He cannot stop you from being able to determine the outcome of this election. In terms of whether or not when the votes are counted and they're all counted, that will be accepted. If I win, that will be accepted. If I lose, that'll be accepted. But by the way, if in fact, he says he's not sure what he's going to accept, well, let me tell you something, it doesn't matter, because if we get the votes, it's going to be all over. He's going to go. He can't stay in power. It won't happen. It won't happen. So vote. Just make sure you understand you have it in your control to determine what this country is going to look like the next four years. Is it going to change? Or you are going to get four more years of these lies?

Chris Wallace 01:26:00
Mr. President. Two minutes.

President Donald Trump 01:26:02
So when I listen to Joe talking about a transition, there's been no transition from when I won. I won that election. If you look at crooked Hillary Clinton, if you look at all of the different people, there was no transition because they came after me trying to do a coup. They came after me spying on my campaign. They started from the day I won and even before I won. From the day I came down the escalator with our first lady, they were a disaster. They were a disgrace to our country and we've caught them. We've caught them all. We've got it all on tape. We've caught them all. By the way, you gave the idea for the Logan Act against General Flynn. You better take a look at that because we caught you in a sense, and President Obama was sitting in the office, he knew about it, too, so don't tell me about a free transition. As far as the ballots are concerned, it's a disaster. A solicited ballot, okay, solicited is okay. You're soliciting. You're asking. They send it back. You send it back. I did that. If you have an unsolicited, they're sending millions of ballots all over the country. There's fraud. They found them in creeks. They found some with the name Trump, just happened to have the name Trump just the other day in a wastepaper basket. They're being sent all over the place. They sent two in a Democrat area. They sent out a thousand ballots. Everybody got two ballots. This is going to be a fraud like you've never seen. The other thing, it's nice on November 3rd, you're watching and you see who won the election, and I think we're going to do well because people are really happy with the job we've done. But you know what? We won't know. We might not know for months because these ballots are going to be all over.

President Donald Trump 01:27:36
Take a look at what happened in Manhattan. Take a look at what happened in New Jersey. Take a look at what happened in Virginia and other places. They're not losing two percent, one percent, which, by the way, is too much. An election could be won or lost with that, they're losing 30 and 40 percent. It's a fraud and it's a shame. Can you imagine where they say, "You have to have your ballot in by November 10th". That means that's seven days after the election. In theory, should have been announced. We have major States with that, all run by Democrats.

Chris Wallace 01:28:08
Sir, it's two minutes.

President Donald Trump 01:28:09
All run by Democrats.

Chris Wallace 01:28:11
President Trump.

President Donald Trump 01:28:11
It's a rigged election.

Chris Wallace 01:28:12
You're going to be able to continue. You have been charging for months that mail-in balloting is going to be a disaster. You say it's rigged. That it's going to lead to fraud. But in 2018, in the last midterm election, 31 million people voted mail-in voting. That was more than a quarter of all the voters that cast their ballots by mail. Now that millions of mail-in ballots have gone out, what are you going to do about it? And are you counting on the Supreme Court, including a Justice Barrett, to settle any dispute?

President Donald Trump 01:28:47
Yeah, I think I'm counting on them to look at the ballots, definitely. Well, I hope we don't need them in terms of the election itself. But for the ballots, I think so, because what's happening is incredible. I just heard, I read today where at least one percent of the ballots for 2016 were invalidated. They they take them. We don't like him.

Chris Wallace 01:29:07
So what are you going to do about it?

President Donald Trump 01:29:07
They throw them out left and right.

Chris Wallace 01:29:08
There are millions of ballots going out right now. What are you going to do?

President Donald Trump 01:29:10
What you do is you go and vote. You do a solicited ballot. That's okay. Or you go and vote.

Chris Wallace 01:29:14
No, I know your complaint. I'm asking you about the fact that millions of people-

President Donald Trump 01:29:17
You go and vote, like they used to in the-

Chris Wallace 01:29:22
Millions of people.

President Donald Trump 01:29:22
You either do, Chris, a solicited ballot where you're sending it in, they're sending it back and you're sending. They have mailmen with lots of it. Did you see what's going on? Take a look at West Virginia mailman selling the ballots. They're being sold. They're being dumped in rivers. This is a horrible thing for our country.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:29:39
There is no evidence of that.

President Donald Trump 01:29:39
This is not going to end well.

Chris Wallace 01:29:44
Okay, Vice President go ahead, sir.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:29:45
Five states that had mail-in ballots for the last decade or more, five, including two Republican states. You don't have to solicit the ballot. It's sent to you. It's sent to your home. What we're saying is they're saying is that it has to be a postmark by Election Day. If it doesn't get in till the seventh, eighth, ninth, it still should be counted. He's just afraid of counting the votes because of the outcome.

President Donald Trump 01:30:11
You are wrong. I love counting the votes.

Chris Wallace 01:30:13
I want to continue with you on this Vice President Biden.

President Donald Trump 01:30:16
Chris, he's so wrong when he makes a statement like that.

Chris Wallace 01:30:18
No, excuse me, Vice President Biden, the biggest problem, in fact, over the years with mail-in voting has not been fraud, historically. It has been that sizable number. Sometimes hundreds of thousands of ballots are thrown out because they have not been properly filled out or there is some other irregularity or [Crosstalk:01:30:38] they missed the deadline. So the question I have is, are you concerned that the Supreme Court, with a Justice Barrett, will settle any dispute?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:30:44
I'm concerned that any court would settle this, because here's the deal. When you get a ballot and you fill it out, you're supposed to have an affidavit. If you didn't know, you have someone say that this is me, you should be able to if in fact, you can verify that you went before the ballot is thrown out, that's sufficient to be able to count the ballot because someone made a mistake and not dotting the correct I. Who they voted for, testify, say who they voted for, say it's you, that is totally legitimate.

Chris Wallace 01:31:18
All right.

President Donald Trump 01:31:18
Excuse me. When you have 80 million ballots? Senators swamping the system.

Chris Wallace 01:31:23
No, gentlemen, I have a final question.

President Donald Trump 01:31:23
You know it can't be done. You know, it can't. And already there's been fraud.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:31:26
Mail service delivers 185 million pieces of mail a day.[ Crosstalk:01:31:30]

Chris Wallace 01:31:27
All right. Gentlemen, we can keep talking. In eight states, election workers are prohibited currently by law, eight states from even beginning to process ballots, even take them out of the envelopes and flatten them until Election Day, that means that it's likely because there's going to be a huge increase in mail-in balloting that we are not going to know on election night who the winner is, that it could be days. It could be weeks.

President Donald Trump 01:31:58
Could be months.

Chris Wallace 01:31:59
Until we find out who the the new president is. So first for you, sir, finally, for the vice president. I hope neither of you will interrupt the other. Will you urge your supporters to stay calm during this extended period, not to engage in any civil unrest? And will you pledge tonight that you will not declare victory until the election has been independently certified? President Trump, you go first.

President Donald Trump 01:32:25
I'm urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully, because that's what has to happen. I am urging them to do it. As you know, today, there was a big problem, in Philadelphia, they went in to watch. They were called poll watchers, a very safe, very nice thing. They were thrown out. They weren't allowed to watch. You know why? Because bad things happen in Philadelphia, bad things. I am urging my people. I hope it's going to be a fair election, if it's a fair election-

Chris Wallace 01:32:53
You are urging them what?

President Donald Trump 01:32:53
I am 100 percent on board. But if I see tens of thousands of ballots being manipulated, I can't go along with that. I'll tell you that-

Chris Wallace 01:33:02
What does that mean, not go along?

President Donald Trump 01:33:02
-from a common sense-

Chris Wallace 01:33:03
Does that mean you're going to tell your people to-

President Donald Trump 01:33:03
I'll tell you what that means.

Chris Wallace 01:33:04
- take to the streets?

President Donald Trump 01:33:05
It means you have a fraudulent election. You sending out 80 million ballots.

Chris Wallace 01:33:08
What would you do that about?

President Donald Trump 01:33:09
They're not equipped. These people aren't equipped to handle it, number one. Number two, they cheat. Hey, they found ballots in a wastepaper basket three days ago and they all had the name- military ballots. They were military. They all had the name Trump on them.

Chris Wallace 01:33:25
Vice President Biden?

President Donald Trump 01:33:26
You think that's good?

Chris Wallace 01:33:27
Vice President Biden, final question for you.

Chris Wallace 01:33:29
Will you urge your supporters to stay calm while the vote is counted? And will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified?

Vice President Joe Biden 01:33:38
Yes, and here's the deal. We count the ballots. As you pointed out, some of these ballots in some states can't even be opened until Election Day. If there's thousands of ballots, it's going to take time to do it. By the way, our military, they've been voting by ballots at the end of the civil war, in effect, and that's what's going to happen. Why was it not? Why is it for them somehow not fraudulent? It's the same process. It's honest. No one has established at all that there is fraud related to mail-in ballots, that somehow it's a fraudulent process.

President Donald Trump 01:34:16
It's already been established. Take a look at Carolyn Maloney's race.

Chris Wallace 01:34:17
I asked you. You had an opportunity to respond, go ahead.

President Donald Trump 01:34:22
They have no idea why it happened.

Chris Wallace 01:34:23
Vice President Biden, go ahead.

Vice President Joe Biden 01:34:24
He has no idea what he's talking about. Here's the deal. The fact is I will accept it and he will, too. You know why? Because once the winner is declared, after all the ballots are counted, all the votes are counted, that will be the end of it. If it's me, in fact, five, if it's not me, I'll support the outcome and I'll be a president, not just for the Democrats, I'll be a president for Democrats and Republicans. This guy-

President Donald Trump 01:34:50
I want to see an honest ballot count.

Chris Wallace 01:34:52
Gentlemen, just say that's the end of it. This is the end of this debate.

President Donald Trump 01:34:56
I want to see an honest ballot count.

Chris Wallace 01:34:56
We're going to leave it there.

President Donald Trump 01:34:57
I think he does too.

Chris Wallace 01:34:58
To be continued in more debates as we go on. President Trump, Vice President Biden, it's been an interesting hour and a half. I want to thank you both for participating in the first of three debates that you have agreed to engage in. We want to thank Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic for hosting this event. The next debate, sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates, will be one week from tomorrow, October 7th, at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. The two vice presidential nominees, Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris, will debate at 9:00 PM Eastern that night. We hope you'll watch. Until then, thank you and good night. Thank you.

Audience 01:35:00
President Trump, the best president of all time. We love you too.

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